The Black Wealth Architects: From Literacy to Legacy.
In honor of Ambassador Digital Magazine’s monumental 5th anniversary, Editor-in-Chief Musa Jackson brings together—for the first time ever—two titans of thought leadership, economic empowerment, and generational wealth-building: Dr. George C. Fraser and John Hope Bryant.
This historic and deeply personal conversation marks a defining moment in our ongoing mission to amplify voices that move the culture forward. These two visionary trailblazers—revered for their decades of work at the intersection of business, education, and economic justice—sit down to reflect on their beginnings, share stories of perseverance, and reveal the defining moments that shaped their lives, missions, and legacies.
Together, these pioneers discuss the urgent need for a cultural and economic shift within Black America—and the bold blueprint they’re building to meet this moment. From personal adversity to national advocacy, from boardrooms to barbershops, they explore what it truly takes to close the racial wealth gap, reclaim financial agency, and scale Black excellence across generations.
This unprecedented dialogue is more than a conversation—it’s a call to action.
As we celebrate five years of Ambassador Digital Magazine spotlighting excellence, culture, and change-makers, we honor the legacy of these living legends—and look ahead to the future they’re fearlessly helping to shape.
DR. GEORGE C. FRASER
This pioneer and trailblazer is Chairman & CEO of FraserNet, Inc., a company he founded 38 years ago to empower people of African descent through global networking and economic development.
Born in Brooklyn, NY, Dr. Fraser overcame a difficult childhood as an orphan and foster child for 15 years. He went on to hold leadership positions at Procter & Gamble, United Way, and Ford Motor Company before launching FraserNet in 1987.
An award-winning author of six best-sellers, including Success Runs in Our Race and Mission Unstoppable (with Les Brown), Dr. Fraser is known as “Black America’s #1 Networker.” He’s received over 350 awards, including two Presidential Lifetime Achievement Awards, and has been featured on ten national magazine covers.
A passionate advocate for financial literacy, Dr. Fraser launched WINDS Wealth Building Centers and is the visionary behind FraserNation and the upcoming Black Business Legacy Hall of Fame, Museum & Metaverse. He’s also co-founded two charter schools in Cleveland serving hundreds of Black children.
Married for 51 years, he is a proud father and grandfather continuing to shape a legacy of empowerment and generational wealth.
MUSA: You’ve shared that you were an orphan and foster child for 15 years. How did those early life experiences shape your resilience, vision, and sense of purpose?
DR. FRASER: It challenged me. It gave me mountains to climb and negativity to overcome. I was simply determined not to be a victim of my circumstances and to avoid a path that, even at a very young age, I knew wasn’t right for me. Those challenges gave me resolve. They gave me determination and the ability to think creatively while overcoming the obstacles in front of me.
MUSA: You spent two decades in leadership at major institutions like Procter & Gamble, United Way, and Ford. What lessons from corporate America did you bring into the founding of FraserNet?
DR. FRASER: I learned the art and science of organization—the art and science of building teams, and the art and science of human connection. I realized that without proper connections and meaningful, productive friendships, you weren’t going to get where you wanted to be. I learned that the people around you—your circle, your team—are directly connected to the work you do, just as you must contribute to the work they do. That one plus one, and then two, three, four, and five—collaboration—was the key to success. This was an extraordinarily important lesson I learned from a very powerful company: Procter & Gamble, the inventors of branding. There, I learned how to market, promote, package, and ultimately brand myself.
MUSA: In 1987, you took the bold step of leaving the corporate world to launch your own company. What drove that decision, and what was the biggest challenge in making that leap?
DR. FRASER: The biggest challenge was money—not vision. The second biggest challenge was finding the right partner, because I didn’t want to do it by myself. I had a couple of friends in mind. I presented the idea to two of them, and one—who owned five of the most popular nightclubs in Cleveland, Ohio—was a great guy, so I chose him. He chose me.
Finding the right partner became a metaphor for life. One of the most important decisions you’ll ever make is your life partner—whether it’s your husband, wife, or someone else. In the same way, choosing the right people for the right roles at the right time is critical. I made a few mistakes, but probably 80% of my decisions about placing the right people in the right positions at the right time were spot-on. Those decisions were incredibly helpful and launched me into a business and an idea that didn’t exist at the time.
It was a risk, but it was groundbreaking. The first business I put together focused on Black educational development—selling Black history materials to schools, colleges, and universities. This was during a time when the whole concept of Black history was just beginning to gain popularity. I discovered a company that produced Black history books, partnered with them, and made a lot of money.
It all came down to having the right partner at the right time.
MUSA: FraserNet has led a global movement in economic development for people of African descent for nearly four decades. What does true economic empowerment look like to you in 2025?
DR. FRASER: I wrote a definition of freedom a long time ago. I said that today, the definition of freedom is self-determination—and you cannot achieve self-determination in the modern world without commerce and economics. Everything, from the moment you wake up in the morning to the time you go to bed at night, involves commerce and finance.
But as Black people, we often don’t understand either. We are the most financially illiterate group on the planet. In America, we are at the bottom of every single economic statistic that matters. Most of us don’t understand this, which means we are essentially prisoners.
If you do not have financial education, financial literacy, and an understanding that freedom is rooted in self-determination—and that self-determination requires participation in commerce and economics in a capitalist society—then you are not truly free.
MUSA: You’ve been called “Black America’s #1 Networker.” What is the most overlooked principle of effective networking, especially in today’s digital-first world?
DR. FRASER: I’m glad you qualified that. One of the biggest mistakes people make is thinking they can effectively network through social media alone. Social media is a great platform for introductions, but real, effective networking happens face-to-face.
If you want to meet important people, you have to be where important people are—they’re not coming to you. Then, find a way to add value and serve them. Don’t meet someone powerful or influential and immediately ask for a donation to your foundation. Instead, find a way to “touch the hem of their garment.” Add value to their life. You give first, you serve first—and the return comes later, sometimes much later. But it starts with an investment in that person.
That requires being present—eyeball to eyeball, face-to-face, fully engaged in a genuine human connection. There’s nothing wrong with social media—it’s wonderful. It gives you a vantage point into people’s lives that you might not get otherwise. But it won’t build your network effectively on its own. Real networking is hand-to-hand, one-on-one, one person at a time—by adding value.
MUSA: In Mission Unstoppable, you and Les Brown explore the blessings hidden in failure. Can you share a personal failure that turned out to be a major turning point in your life?
DR. FRASER: Sure, there are many. But there’s one experience in particular that I still talk about to this day—something I share in my writing and my speaking. It was a failure that taught me one of the most powerful lessons of my life.
After moving to New York, I couldn’t get a job. I only had a diploma in carpentry, but back in the 1960s, the carpenters’ union was controlled by the Italians, and I couldn’t get in. So, the only job I could find—the one job nobody wants in America—was cleaning toilets and mopping floors on the midnight shift at LaGuardia Airport.
If you told people that’s what you did for a living, you’d be perceived as a failure. It was considered the lowest of the low.
One night, around 1:00 a.m., I was cleaning a bathroom stall when a plane landed late and a man came in. He used the restroom, then walked over to the sink, washed his hands, balled up a wet paper towel, and began wiping down the counter—polishing the chrome on the sink.
Just as I stepped out of the stall, I saw him doing this. I smiled and asked, “Would you like a job?” He hadn’t seen me, so when he turned around, he laughed and said, “No—but I’m glad you’re here. Can I ask you a question? I’ve never been in a bathroom where the person cleaning the toilets was whistling. Why are you whistling?”
I said, “Well, if you can’t be with the one you love, love the one you’re with.” In other words, find some value in whatever you’re doing.
Then I asked him, “But the real question is—why were you polishing the chrome in a public bathroom?”
He looked at me and said, “I learned in life that no matter where you go, or who or what you touch, try to leave it just a little bit better.”
That moment planted a seed in my subconscious that changed the entire trajectory of my life. I didn’t realize it at the time, but that simple truth—leave everything better than you found it—has shaped everything I’ve done since. It informed my lifelong commitment to loving, giving, serving, and adding value.
And that seed was planted in a bathroom at LaGuardia Airport—when I was just 18 years old.
MUSA: Being named one of the “Top 50 Power Brokers in Black America” and gracing the cover of Black Enterprise are huge honors. What do you think those titles demand of you in terms of leadership and legacy?
DR. FRASER: It demands consistency—because you’re constantly under scrutiny. People see you on the cover of Black Enterprise or notice your picture or an award hanging on the wall. I tell people: if you go to LaGuardia Airport and head down to the maintenance department, there’s a picture of me on the wall. I was the best floor mopper and toilet cleaner in the history of LaGuardia Airport.
What it really demands is living up to expectations. That image of you—that reputation—becomes the expectation of you. And there’s a kind of collegial, peer pressure to maintain that image and uphold that reputation. In a sense, it creates a soft pressure that helps you stay the course.
MUSA: Your classic, Success Runs in Our Race, became a blueprint for Black professionals. If you were updating that book today, what new chapters or themes would you include?
DR. FRASER: One chapter would be titled “The Truth Will Set You Free, But It Will Make You Miserable First.” That would absolutely be a chapter—because the truth, especially when it comes to cultivating, nurturing, and building the relationships you’ll need for the rest of your life, is easy to say but extraordinarily difficult to live.
To do that effectively requires a person with high emotional intelligence. When I wrote Success Runs in Our Race almost 40 years ago, there was no formal science called “emotional intelligence.” It’s a relatively new field—about 25 years old. Emotional intelligence, simply put, is the ability to manage your five most important emotions: happiness, sadness, fear, anger, and shame. The proper management of those emotions will determine your success in life.
One of the reasons so many marriages fail is that one or both partners lack the emotional intelligence to manage the hills, valleys, twists, turns, and obstacles that life inevitably brings—not just in relationships, but in almost anything. As you get older and wiser, you’ll realize that your EQ—your emotional quotient—will be far more important than your IQ. You could be in Mensa, with a genius-level IQ, but if you have the personality of a box of rocks, you’re not going anywhere without high emotional intelligence.
So yes, emotional intelligence—and that truth—would be a new chapter. In fact, it would be a key addition in a revised edition of Success Runs in Our Race.
MUSA: How has your relationship or experience with John Hope Bryant influenced your perspectives on community upliftment and economic empowerment?
DR. FRASER: John Hope Bryant. What I love about John Hope Bryant—and the reason we’re very close friends, even though I’m 25 years older than he is—is his commitment. What I’ve truly fallen in love with is seeing in him what I see in myself. In a sense, I’ve fallen in love with the way he is an extension of me.
I’m 80, and he’s in his 50s. He’s been watching me for a long time, and I’ve been watching him. I see myself in him—but as the next generation, and he’s taken things to a level beyond what I was able to reach.
We’re singing from the same hymnal—we’re singing the same song in a different time period, with different tools. He’s incredibly smart, just in a different way. He has very high emotional intelligence, strong business savvy, and he’s not only a servant leader, he’s also a very successful entrepreneur.
That’s what I love about him. He’s taken the foundation I helped build and elevated it to an entirely new level. It’s a gift to be in his presence—and he feels the same way about me, because I was there 25 years before him, paving the way, even if not yet at the level he has reached today.
MUSA: In the current political landscape, what is the most pressing action you believe should be taken in Black communities?
DR. FRASER: The most immediate strategic move is preparing for the 2026 midterms. Black folks must rally around the Democratic agenda to take back the House and strengthen our voting bloc in the Senate.
Right now, we hold the Senate by just a vote or two—but that margin is fragile. If you blink, it’ll be November 2026 before you know it. We need to be ready to shake Donald Trump’s world by reclaiming the House. And once we do, you already know what’s coming—he’ll spend the next two years entangled in the impeachment process. That’s going to be the first order of business. So, this is the most immediate and pressing focus for all good, righteous Democrats. These are our marching orders for the next 18 months.
MUSA: How can collaborative efforts between older and younger generations of Black leaders strengthen the movement for equality and justice?
DR. FRASER: Very important question—and it is a real challenge we’re facing. There simply aren’t enough opportunities or platforms where Baby Boomers, Generation X, and Generation Y are actively interacting, talking, and exchanging ideas. I mean, there are no regular town hall meetings bringing Gen X and Boomers together. Very few panel discussions include both generations.
What we try to do at the Power Networking Experience is exactly that—we encourage multi-generational participation. But not just for the dinners and the parties. We focus on fostering substantive conversations between generations—on stage, in open and honest dialogue.
We need to promote more of these conversations—especially between Boomers and the two generations coming up: Generation X (my children), and eventually Generation Alpha (their children). That’s how we bridge the gap, transfer wisdom, and shape the future—together.
MUSA: In your opinion, what role does financial literacy , economic empowerment and networking play in the overall upliftment of Black communities?
DR. FRASER: I think I’m going to spend the rest of my life dealing with this issue. I’m addressing what I consider to be the five critical priorities Black people must focus on over the next two generations, in order of importance.
First, I’m working on what I believe is the most urgent: the existential crisis of the Black family. Black families are falling apart. When I was a child, 80% of Black children were raised in two-parent households. Today, that number is just 23%. 71% of Black women are not married, and 29% of them will never marry. 66% of Black men are not married, and 34% of them will never marry. 72% of Black children are born out of wedlock. Nearly 80% are raised in single-parent households, primarily by Black women. Reconstructing the Black family over the next two generations is the cornerstone of our survival. Because without couples, you have no families. Without families, you have no community. Without community, you have no tradition. Without tradition, you have no culture. And without culture—you have extinction.
Second, we must focus on building and scaling Black-owned businesses. Opportunity is not our challenge—we live in the greatest country in the world, full of opportunity. Our challenge is capacity—the ability to take advantage of those opportunities.
That means building our capacity by learning how to use AI effectively, expanding the potential of our minds, and scaling our businesses. We must also focus on building and managing wealth properly. We’re at the bottom of every major economic statistic in America, which means we are fundamentally financially illiterate as a people.
That leads me to the third priority: financial education. We must build systems of continuous financial education—and embed them into Black churches. There are over 75,000 Black churches in America, and not nearly enough have a ministry focused on financial literacy. Yet the Bible includes over 2,500 passages about money and wealth. There’s no shortage of material for sermons. Every Black church should have a financial ministry, using a unified curriculum. That’s why we created the WIN Wealth Building system—a free curriculum available to any Black church. We must be teaching from the same playbook.
Fourth is the need for effective networking. We’ve been saying it for years: we need unity and collaboration. We need a lot of us doing a little, not just a few of us doing a lot. We have to come together to get ahead—to connect the dots. Because we already have everything we need to succeed—except each other. Jews have each other. East Indians have each other. Asians have each other. We don’t have each other. And this isn’t just a problem in the United States—it’s also a problem on the continent of Africa. Africa still doesn’t have its act together. There are 54 countries on the continent, but no “United States of Africa.”
One of the reasons they assassinated Gaddafi is because he had the vision—and the muscle—to pursue two radical ideas: A unified Africa . And an African currency backed by gold. He understood the power of unity and self-determination. So must we.
MUSA: What advice do you have for the next generation of Black leaders who want to create meaningful impact but may not have the traditional credentials or resources?
DR. FRASER: When you say “traditional credentials,” I assume you mean things like college degrees or access to large sums of money. Well, what you just described—that was my beginning.
You have to persevere. You have to be creative. You’ve got to make a way out of no way.
When I sign books, I always write the same three words—just three words that I’ve written in thousands of books over the last 40 years:
Stay the course. That means pick a righteous path and stay on it. And if you stay the course, all that is due to you will come to you.
We must persevere.
When I was 12, I started a lemonade stand. At 14, I launched a car-washing service for elderly people. At 15, I started a babysitting service specifically for young men. You must be creative and persistent.
Second, you must be committed to self-education. In other words, commit yourself to lifelong learning, constant and never-ending improvement, and personal growth—from the moment you become aware of that idea until the day you die.
Michelangelo, the great artist who painted the Sistine Chapel and sculpted the iconic statue of David in Florence, once said at 87 years old: “I am still learning.”
He died two years later at 89, in his home in Rome.
So yes, you can get a college degree if you want. But don’t stop there.
Here’s a sobering statistic I read about a year ago: 60% of Black people who graduate from college never read another book in their lives. That’s insane.
We must read. You’ve heard the old saying: “If you want to hide something from a Black person, put it in a book.”
White folks are planning for three generations ahead. And too many of us are planning for Saturday night.
We’ve got to self-educate.
Next, you must build a strong support network. You cannot succeed on your own, by yourself, in a vacuum. There is no success you can attain, sustain, or maintain completely on your own.
Building a support network requires emotional intelligence, empathy, and an understanding of the company you keep. Let me put it like this: Introduce me to your five closest friends, and I’ll tell you who you are. As they go, so go you.
You cannot spend major time with minor people. You cannot go somewhere with people going nowhere. You cannot do something with people doing nothing.
If you want to change your life, change your damn relationships.
If you’re stuck, if you’re not going anywhere, take a look at the people you’re hanging around with.
And let me end this part on a personal note. Friends are critically important. Why? Because friends are God’s apology for your relatives. You can pick your friends. You can’t pick your relatives. Sometimes your knucklehead relatives will affect—and infect—your personal growth. So be careful who you associate with. Build a real support system.
And finally—and I’ve said this in many ways before—understand the profound importance of hard work and sacrifice.
You are not going to get where you want to go without doing the work.
If it were easy, why would God need you?
Are you willing to work?
Are you willing to sacrifice?
Are you willing to be patient?
Are you willing to commit yourself to constant, never-ending improvement?
This is work.It’s easy to say, but hard to do. But I promise you this: It’s impossible to fail if you’re willing to do the work—if you’ve got the right people around you, encouraging you, feeding you inspiration, and showing you the way. So that would be my succinct advice to future generations.
MUSA: As someone who’s been a beacon for Black economic development, how do you envision the next decade for Black entrepreneurship and intergenerational wealth?
DR. FRASER: We will get where we’re going. There are more Black folks going down the right path now than at any other time in my 80 years on this planet—and they’re doing the work.
Now, are there still a large percentage who are not doing the work? Yes. We know who they are. But I’m not going to belittle them in this interview.
I’m optimistic.
Right now, in the United States, there are about eight Black billionaires—the most we’ve ever had in the history of Black people in America. Globally, when you include the continent of Africa, Canada, and elsewhere, there are probably around 20 Black billionaires.
But I predict that within the next 20 years—within the next generation—there will be 30 Black billionaires in the United States alone. We will triple that number.
Why? Because we are extraordinarily creative people.
We are learning more. We are creating and seizing more opportunities than ever before.
And technology is having a profound impact on that progress.
There is no group on the planet more creative in everything we do than us. With artificial intelligence and other emerging tools—tools I couldn’t have imagined when I was young—we will triple the number of Black billionaires.
And more importantly, we will significantly close the wealth gap.
I believe that within the next generation, the median household wealth of Black America will close the gap between us and white Americans by another 20 to 25%.
Networking will remain relevant—it’s an evergreen topic. We’ll get better at it. We’ll finally understand that success isn’t built purely on social media, though social media is a powerful tool.
We now have influencers with millions of followers, and that’s a beautiful thing. It sets them up to build real organizations—to do the kind of transformative work that will take us to the next level.
All of this is advancing significantly faster than it did when I was young.
So yes—I am very optimistic about the future.
MUSA: What is the next mountain Dr. George Fraser wants to climb?
DR. FRASER: Wow. There are so many ways I could go with that, but I’m trying to prioritize it down to a single thing.
Now, I’m not going to be death, but I am going to have a sword fight with death. At 80+, that’s when the real fighting begins.
I want to live to be 90—another decade.
With 21st-century medicine, proper dieting, consistent exercise, and most importantly, feeding the brain, it’s possible. You don’t just exercise your body—you must exercise and nourish your mind to stay sharp and mentally present.
A lot of people say, “You don’t sound or look like you’re 80,” and that’s because I’ve spent a lifetime in a sword fight—with illness, with aging, with mental and physical decline. This moment right now is just the manifestation of that lifelong battle.
But now, I face my biggest fight yet—the biggest mountain to climb:
Staying sharp and strong, just like this, for the next 10 years.
When I turned 80, I asked AI:
“What percentage of Americans live past 80?”
It came back and said 96% of Americans die before reaching 80.
That means your odds of living past 80 are just 4%—and most of that is health-related. So to not only live to 90, but to perform at this level—mentally, physically, spiritually—that’s one hell of a mountain to climb.
MUSA: What do you hope your legacy will be in the context of Black leadership, and what do you think defines success for future generations in this regard?
DR.FRASER: My secret to success is really simple: Do what you love, with people that you love.
Find your purpose. We are all put here with a unique purpose in life. There is a job that is assigned only to you—and if you don’t do it, it won’t get done. Not in this universe.
There will be obstacles in discovering that purpose, but once you find it—once you know this is what you love, this is what you’re here to do—then do it with everything you’ve got.
But more importantly, do it with people you love. And if you do that—you cannot fail.
Loving. Giving. Serving. Adding value. That’s the real secret to success. It’s not more complicated than that.
Of course, there are other things:
Take care of yourself.
Treat yourself better than anyone else ever could or would—because you are your greatest responsibility.
I tell people all the time:
“There’s only one reason I want more money—so I can do more good things. I don’t want to die with it. You can’t take it with you.”
So that’s my secret: Every day, I wake up excited about living. Excited about what my day is going to bring—because I’ll be loving, giving, serving, adding value…
doing what I love, with people that I love.
-Musa Jackson
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JOHN HOPE BRYANT
The Architect of America’s Second Economic Reconstruction.
Founder, Chairman, and CEO of the nonprofit Operation HOPE, Bryant is also at the helm of Bryant Group Ventures and The Promise Homes Company, one of the largest minority-controlled owners of institutional-quality, single-family residential rental homes in the U.S. As co-founder of Global Dignity and a trusted advisor to both business and government, his work spans the highest levels of leadership and advocacy.
A visionary with Wall Street credibility and Main Street soul, John Hope Bryant has redefined modern leadership by merging capitalism with conscience, and influence with impact. Whether he’s creating billion-dollar ideas with grassroots precision or building bridges between Fortune 500 CEOs and underserved communities, Bryant operates with a singular mission: to make financial literacy the civil rights issue of our time.
Bryant has served under four U.S. Presidents, including roles as Vice-Chair of President Bush’s Council on Financial Literacy, member of President Obama’s Advisory Council on Financial Capability, and Chairman of the Committee on the Underserved. He is currently helping lead the national charge on financial empowerment, economic inclusion, and ethical AI, collaborating with Silicon Valley titans to ensure a future shaped by values as well as vision.
Part Reginald Lewis, part Jay-Z, with a dash of MLK and a whole lot of drive—Bryant moves like a mogul, speaks like a preacher, and plans like a policymaker. With bestselling books on economics and leadership under his belt, he continues to build a movement at the intersection of prosperity and purpose.
Ten steps ahead, with data in one hand and hope in the other—John Hope Bryant is not just changing the game. He’s rewriting the rules.
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MUSA: With a potential recession looming and economic instability growing, what do you recommend we do right now?
JOHN: Ignore the noise and buy a house. Ignore the noise and get a will. Ignore the noise and get a life insurance policy. Ignore the noise and learn a skill or trade. Ignore the noise and consider starting a business—or buying one. Ignore the noise and look at the long-term data. In the history of this country, you’re going to have recessions and recoveries. Over that long history, three things have never brought down GDP—gross domestic product—in this country: income, stock market values, and real estate values. So, if you can afford to, you should be buying on the dip.
In this economy, you should be obsessed—every single day—with how to improve your financial condition, regardless of the noise around you. Good days, bad days. Strong economies, weak economies. Ignore the noise and look at the fundamentals. McDonald’s and Walmart will always be doing well. I’m talking about fundamentals. You’ve gotta eat. You need plumbing services, electrical services, utilities, internet, phone service. Those major companies and service providers—good days or bad days—they’re probably going to be here.
If you’re making a long-term bet, that seems like a safe place to hide. Real estate—God’s not making any more land. That’s probably a good place to hide, too.
White folks haven’t really had problems—not like this. They’re the ones who are really going to feel the pain as we get into the latter part of this year. These cuts that are being made—these are economic bombs without addresses. They may be targeting us, but the shrapnel is going to hit everybody. They may be trying to hurt us—but we don’t own stock, we don’t own real estate, we don’t have the contracts. We don’t really have the jobs. It’s like trying to hit a ghost. You’re going to hit people who actually do have contracts, who really do have jobs, who actually have those interests—that’s white America. And white America has never had real problems. A crisis for a typical middle-class white family is Johnny getting cursed out by a teacher at school, and they raise hell over it. For Black folks, a crisis happens every Tuesday. So, what else is new? We should look at it that way. We should see this as just more stuff we have to manage through.
I don’t know why people are surprised by what they got in Washington. You voted for it. He told you exactly what he was going to do. I was talking to a billionaire friend of mine, and he said, “Black men voted for this guy.” I told him, “Try taking that vote again today.” Black men didn’t trust the government. They felt the government hadn’t done anything for them. A Black man couldn’t even live with his wife or girlfriend who was on welfare because policies didn’t allow a man to be in the household. So, a Black man thinks—naively—“This man sent me a check in his first term with his name on it.” Even though it came from the Treasury, not him. But he’s a billionaire, supposedly. “He’s gonna give me some money. The government ain’t doing anything for me. He’s gonna do something.” There’s a lot of chauvinism in our community. Meanwhile, white men felt emasculated too. They live by this machismo thing. So there’s your vote.
Rich people are always going to push for deregulation and tax reform. That’s great for business. The question is: did they make a bad bet? I don’t know. We’ll see. I hope he succeeds—because if he fails, we all fail.
But I don’t know why anyone is obsessing over this moment. You should’ve known what you were doing when you stepped into that voting booth. Or if you didn’t vote and just sat on the couch—the couch won. Everyone who didn’t vote is complicit. And now even more so, because Dr. King gave his life for you to have that vote—and you literally said, “No thanks.”
So you really can’t complain now—when you’re fired from your job, or your contract gets canceled. You thought you could sit it out and still be safe. You didn’t involve yourself in democracy.
Well, now everybody’s reading the Constitution. The Bill of Rights. What’s an executive order. They’re getting a civics lesson. Good. Some people needed to be woken up.
You can’t have a rainbow without a storm first.
So if this president is what it took to get you excited about voting, about civic participation—then maybe this president was the wake-up call. If it got you excited about investigating candidates, or learning about your school board, then good.
I tell Black folks: get involved with your city council. Pay your rent and your car note. Pay your mortgage. Get involved in your school board. Your city government. In Harlem. In your civic organizations.
Don’t you have enough to do? Why are you obsessing over something you can’t control?
Raise quality children. Be good to your spouse. Involve yourself in local philanthropy. Get involved with your church. And this moment—it too shall pass.
MUSA: You advices President Clinton as a financial advisor. You were appointed by President Bush in 2004 to the CDFI Fund Advisory Board and later as Vice Chair of his Council on Financial Literacy, then by President Obama to the Advisory Council on Financial Capability. How crucial is the president’s role in shaping the nation’s financial literacy”
JOHN: Great question. I’m working on policy right now at the federal level for financial literacy. It’s a very good question—very relevant. It’s different than Civil Rights legislation, which was the second reconstruction. We are now in what I call the third reconstruction—the second economic reconstruction. No different than how you needed the President of the United States to sign legislation enacted by Congress and confirmed by the U.S. Senate, inspired by Civil Rights leaders on behalf of the American people. That was codified into law during the Civil Rights Movement.
Financial literacy is the civil rights issue of this generation. It’s as important as the right to vote. You need that, ultimately, to get it into public schools—K through 12 or K through college—codified into curriculum, funded by the government. Public education is funded by the government. People think that education is free. It is not free. You pay for it through every taxable event you engage in. And I’m not talking about consumer taxes. Unless you’re paying a consumer tax at the gas station—that’s a consumption tax. I’m talking about property taxes, income taxes, capital gains taxes—those go to the U.S. Treasury.
Part of the deal we have in this country is that the government will pay for infrastructure, law enforcement, public lights, emergency services, and education. So every child is subsidized, depending on the school district, between $6,000 and $12,000 a year on average. If people actually knew this, they would kick their kid’s ass for not going to school. By the way, if we took it more seriously, we’d understand we’re actually paying for it. But there’s this perception that education is free.
To answer your question: no, education had to be codified so that 14,000 children in this country would be compensated per child to educate them—so they could hire teachers, principals, counselors, buy buildings, school supplies, and pay for the full cost of education. You also need financial literacy to be codified by the federal government—signed into law by the president, funded on an annual basis, and made part of the national budget.
There’s a saying in D.C.: “If there’s no money behind it, it’s not real.” Whatever it is—if there’s no money behind it, it’s just empty calories. It’s not real.
So yes, I got financial literacy through executive orders established as a federal policy of the U.S. government. I did that under Bush and Obama. You can literally Google: What executive orders did John Bryant inspire—and the numbers will come up with all the details. But unfortunately, they were unfunded mandates, and they only applied to the federal government—not to school districts, cities, or states. I forgot to ask for the money.
So now I’m going back, trying to get Congress and the Senate, on a bipartisan basis at some point, to pass Financial Literacy for All legislation and get the president to sign it into law—so that we have the tools to empower ourselves.
Your question is very important. On that first point—yes.
Kennedy was a president Black people liked, theoretically. Lyndon Johnson was not someone Black folks were fond of at the time. He was on record saying nasty things—on tape—calling us the N-word and worse. He called Jews bad things too. He called women bad things. He was just crude. But he signed four pieces of Civil Rights legislation. Not Kennedy—Johnson. A very unlikely friend to civil rights.
I don’t really care who the president is who signs it—I just want it signed. I don’t have a relationship, intentionally, with this president. But I have a very strong relationship with the Secretary of the Treasury, who trusts me and listens to my counsel. Who seems to be modeling financial literacy policy around what I’m saying to him. We’ll see how far that goes.
Now—I’m going to say something that may seem like a contradiction. But your question is too good not to go there. Here’s the other side of it—and it’s extremely important:
The government shouldn’t matter much to Black people when it comes to our prosperity.
This is the problem. After the first reconstruction, we needed the government for freedom—Lincoln, Frederick Douglass, etc. Second reconstruction—we needed the federal government for access: into a public building, a water fountain, a bus, the right to vote.
But this third reconstruction—this second economic reconstruction? We can do this on our own. So why are we still relying on and depending on the federal government?
When the government is doing what they’ve done in the last three months—essentially kicking Black people out in various ways—the jobs being cut are disproportionately ours. Anything tied to affirmative action or DEI is being targeted. One could argue that from a policy and political standpoint, that’s a signal: more support to rural areas, and less for urban ones. I think urban areas generate GDP, generate income, and are highly diverse. I don’t think that strategy is going to be successful. But that’s the signal this president seems to be sending to his base.
The message is: “Y’all ain’t gotta go, but you gotta get the heck up outta here. I’m not giving you any money—unless I have to.”
Except for HBCUs. Which I believe will be just fine.
But why should we care?
Forty, fifty, sixty years after the Civil Rights Movement, we should have moved to free enterprise and capitalism already. That’s why I issued a business plan for America on April 4, 2025—the 57th anniversary of Dr. King’s assassination. A business plan for Black America. I also did one for rural America—read: poor white folks. One for women, one for American Indians, one for Asian Americans.
The one for African Americans shows that if we got reparations—if the government said, “You know what? We owe you a debt. We’re going to give you this largesse”—they couldn’t pay for slavery. That’s $41 trillion. It would break the country. But if they symbolically gave reparations? My estimate is it would be somewhere between $300 billion and $600 billion over the next 20 years. That’s a lot of money by most standards.
But get this—if all we did was raise people’s credit scores across the country, that alone would be worth $750 billion. And we can do that ourselves. Nonprofits, community groups, civic clubs, the Divine Nine, fraternities, sororities, HBCUs—if we obsessed about every community, every block, being like your mother or my mother: “We’re going to get our credit scores—not 850 like our mothers maybe had, but just 700.” Right now it’s around 620.
If we obsessed about that over the next five years—I’ve already done it with my clients, and I know it’s doable—just fixing errors on tax reports, resolving small things, raising scores—that’s $750 billion.
Then you take that and become a homeowner, because now you have prime credit. That’s $800 billion on top of $750 billion. That’s $1.5 trillion.
Then you take that easy equity and buy a business. That’s another trillion. All of that by 2053. In 20 years.
Then add AI on top of that. We shouldn’t be afraid of AI killing our jobs—we should be asking: how do I get involved in the AI revolution?
That’s $3.5 trillion at least—half of which has nothing to do with the federal government.
We are obsessed with the federal government—because our grants, our nonprofits, our donations, our welfare—it’s all tied to whether the federal government is fair to us.
We made two choices in the last 6,000 years—from Africa to here. Black people chose culture and civic participation. White folks and Jews chose commerce and capitalism. I’m not saying one is better. They both have benefits.
Our choice made “cool” what it is around the world. You walk cool. You are cool. Black people mastered cool. Our music, our fashion—what we say is cool, is cool in North Korea. Globally.
But we didn’t link “cool” to commerce and capitalism. We didn’t connect civic participation to financial literacy, ownership, and economics. So we ended up with empty calories.
MUSA: “Growing up in Compton and South Central, did that environment have any influence on the path you’re on today?”
JOHN: Oh my God. It’s everything. That’s like asking, “Did your family’s involvement in Harlem have any influence on the fact that you’re still in Harlem?” It’s everything.
I’m still in South Central. I’m still in Compton. I’m a global citizen, but I’ve taken the neighborhood and the community residents—their pain, their angst, their frustrations, their unfulfilled dreams, their aspirational hopes and unmet needs—their ability to create GDP (Gross Domestic Product) for this country, their potential to build incredible businesses even though they’re drug dealers right now, their ability to organize massive organizations even though they’re gang leaders right now, which is really just a frustrated union organizer…
I carry all of that. All the people who died, who were murdered, who are on probation or parole—people I grew up with who don’t get to sit in the rooms I now sit in.
If I don’t utter their names—if I don’t mention them, if I don’t recall their stories every time I meet with someone of substance—then the world forgets about them.
So it’s not part of my story. It is my story.
A lot of people run away from the past. A lot of successful leaders will act like that’s not part of their story. But it is central to my story.
I am me because they are them. We are the same.
It’s even more specific than that. I’m happy to give the details. But philosophically, it didn’t contribute to my narrative—it is my narrative.
MUSA: For those starting a family or looking to build generational wealth, what’s the smartest way to begin?”
JOHN: The number one way to build wealth in America, without question, is homeownership.
Right now, 41 to 42—maybe 44% depending on the area—of Black folks own a home. The national average for Black homeownership is 42%. For our white counterparts, that number is 75%. That delta—that difference—is massive wealth creation.
Some people might say, “John, Black folks tried to do that and got smashed in the 2008 economic crisis.”
No—you got pimped in the 2008 crisis. You were manipulated. You were hoodwinked. You were bamboozled—to quote Malcolm X. All because you were financially illiterate. Because someone could tell you something and you’d believe it. They appeared like they had your best interest at heart, but they were really after your wallet.
You asked what the payment was—not what the interest rate was. And you should never ask just what the payment is when there’s an interest rate attached to anything with five or six figures involved.
Five figures means $10,000 or more. Six figures means $100,000 or more. You never ask, “What’s the payment?” You ask, “What’s the interest rate?” Because if you get the interest rate wrong, the payment doesn’t matter—it will kill you. That debt will kill you.
There were mortgages in the 2008 crisis called negative amortization mortgages. Now, if you’re not in the financial world—if you’re not financially literate—you probably have no idea what I just said. But what I just said was a death wish: a negative amortizing mortgage.
That means every payment I make, I owe more tomorrow. Every payment I make, my debt grows. Even with the payment I can afford—“Give me my $600/month payment”—you buy a home that way and the balance goes from $250,000 to $385,000? That can kill you.
And so we bought mini-mansions when we really should’ve bought modest homes. In New York, we had interest-only loans, which means you never pay down principal.
We made a lot of mistakes. But the root cause? We weren’t financially literate.
I went through the 2008 crisis like everybody else. Nothing bad happened to me.
I bought a condo—a townhouse—in LA, in the Black Beverly Hills of LA, the Ladera Heights area. I bought it on La Tijera Boulevard, 7122. I bought it for $220,000. During the crisis, the value went down to like $180,000. All my broke friends were screaming, “Sell! Sell! Sell! John, get out of this thing!”
When a crisis hits, poor people freak out.
But Warren Buffett said, “When people are afraid, be greedy. When people are greedy, be afraid.” So I ignored the noise. I figured—I gotta live somewhere. Why not live in a place I own?
From a tax perspective, I could still write off the mortgage payments. I could still benefit from a 30-year fixed mortgage. I could still write off the property taxes. I could still write off all the improvements I was making. I couldn’t do that if I rented. I wanted the tax benefits. So I said, “Let me chill. This is mine.”
The next year, I moved to Atlanta. I rented out the condo to a Black LAPD officer. I thought: “Black people, law enforcement, steady paycheck, stability.” My man was late every month. I had to chase him down for rent—but he finally paid.
So I forgot about the place and went about my business.
Five years later, I wanted to buy a property in Atlanta with my wife. The property cost $750,000. I thought, “Where am I gonna get $750,000?”
I called my broker in LA. He said, “I could probably sell that condo you’ve got.” Then he said—casually—“I could get $750,000 for it.”
That rinky-dink townhome I bought for $220,000? That dropped to $180,000 during the crisis? Was now worth $750,000.
He listed it. We had an offer in 24 hours. Closed in 30 days.
Financial literacy. I did a 1031 tax-free exchange with the proceeds to buy my Atlanta property. That means if you buy another property within a year, you pay no taxes—no capital gains, nothing.
The Atlanta property I bought with that money is now a multi-million dollar property.
If you understand what I just said… the first move people should make is: Buy a home.
That little $220,000 place I bought in LA—with no taxes paid on any of my gains—ultimately helped me buy a multi-million dollar home in Atlanta.
So Buy a home. Get yourself a will. You can download a basic one from the internet. You don’t need to hire an attorney to start—just a simple will, notarized. Get an insurance policy—doesn’t have to be whole life, it can be term life. But get something. Don’t let people do a GoFundMe campaign for your funeral. I don’t know how long you’re gonna live, but I damn sure know you’re gonna die. What’s the mystery? So when you pass away, don’t leave it to others to decide what happens. Decide yourself—with a will. And make sure you have an asset: at least a term life insurance policy. Even if it’s just $25,000, it’ll pay for your funeral. And by the way, if you work for a respectable employer, your health insurance may include a death benefit—often around $25,000. Most people don’t know that. Financial literacy.
So Check your health insurance policy—see if there’s a $25K death benefit. Buy a term life policy—at least $25,000. If you can, get $50,000—it’ll cost like $10–20/month if you’re in decent health. And by the way, if you’re in your 20s or early 30s and healthy, you can get a $1 million policy for about $100/month. That means when you pass away, your children, your spouse, your nonprofit, your community—Ambassador Magazine even—whoever you choose, gets $1 million.
That’s generational wealth. That’s ballin’. And nothing we just said is complicated.
MUSA: What specific aspects of Dr. Fraser’s work resonate most deeply
with you, and how have they influenced your own approach to leadership?
JOHN: He was changing mindsets. And all poverty—other than sustenance poverty, which means a roof over your head, food on the table, and reasonable health care—all other forms of poverty are tied to mindset. That’s what’s really important. So, just modeling the right mindset matters.
MUSA: Given the current political climate, what is the most critical action you believe society must take to address the systemic challenges facing Black Americans?
JOHN: Make financial literacy the civil rights issue of this generation. And make AI literacy the silver rights issue of this generation.
MUSA: How can collaborative efforts between older and younger generations of Black leaders strengthen the movement for equality and justice?
JOHN: We’ve built a bridge from civil rights to silver rights—from protesting in the streets to cutting business deals and achieving ownership in the suites. Civil rights protests shouldn’t be a separate conversation; they should be a continuation of the conversation.
I’m personally grateful for the support of Dr. George Fraser, Ambassador Andrew Young, T.D. Jakes, and by extension, Reverend Jesse Jackson—who gave me an award last year—as well as Reverend Al Sharpton and the late Dorothy Height. These are heroes and sheroes who blazed the trail. I also appreciate the ongoing support of leaders like Marc Morial of the National Urban League and Derrick Johnson of the NAACP.
Their support has meant a lot as I’ve worked to create an extension of their movement through what I call “silver rights,” which represents a third reconstruction. Some may not initially have seen it as part of the thread or directly relevant, but it was always meant to be helpful—and that’s what it’s doing.
In the last decade, I haven’t received any drama, hate, or negative energy from any of these leaders about my work. Now, 20 years ago, some of the old heads weren’t helpful—in fact, some were harmful. But I chalk that up to a different time. Maybe they didn’t understand what I was trying to do. Maybe they thought I was just a capitalist or some kind of hardcore Republican and made assumptions. I don’t know. But they’re not doing that anymore. Everything I’m hearing now is positive and supportive—and that’s a good thing.
MUSA: In light of the diversity within the Black diaspora, how can we foster greater unity and collaboration among various groups to achieve collective goals?
JOHN: We have to heal from our pain. We’re carrying a combination of low self-esteem and PTSD—we’re traumatized by all the crap we’ve had to deal with in this country. Black Americans are different from Black Caribbeans and Black Africans. We generally have lower self-esteem and higher levels of depression, even though we also have high levels of confidence and competence—because we’ve succeeded in a market-based economy.
Meanwhile, our Caribbean and African brothers and sisters may have lower levels of confidence because they’re coming from elsewhere. They don’t yet have the networks or the same level of success here—but they come with their family structures intact. Slavery didn’t last nearly as long there as it did here, so they often arrive with a stronger sense of self-esteem. In many ways, we could say: we give them our confidence, and they give us their self-esteem. That’s one way to draw an analogy among Black Africans, Black Caribbeans, and Black Americans.
But because of our low self-esteem, we don’t always trust each other. We’re often more suspicious of one another. We tend to go it alone. We’re less hopeful and more cynical—and that leads us to make bad decisions. So, we’ve got to heal our pain. Because a lot of disease is really dis-ease.
MUSA: Tell us a bit about Operation Hope. And what you would say is the foundation’s greatest accomplishment?
JOHN: Operation HOPE is the largest Black male-founded, community-based nonprofit in American history—number one. Operation HOPE is also America’s leading provider of financial literacy, coaching, tools, and services—number two. It is the largest on-the-ground delivery system for financial literacy and empowerment in the country.
We have 1,500 offices in 42 states and 300 cities, with 400 full-time employees, a $75 million annual operating budget, 4 million clients served, and $4.5 billion invested in our communities.
At the end of the day, Operation HOPE is economic plumbing. We’ve never had economic plumbing. We’ve had inspirational leaders, great speakers, powerful coaches, poets, and artists. But in a capitalist country, we have not had economic plumbing—and that’s critically important. Jews have economic plumbing. White Americans have economic plumbing. Asian Americans have economic plumbing. Even Latinos have economic plumbing—a network, a system, a way to plug in.
We need economic plumbing too—and I believe that’s Operation HOPE’s greatest legacy.
Right now, we have 1,500 offices. My vision is 15,000. So that wherever you go in five years—whether it’s a church, synagogue, mosque, nonprofit, major employer, government agency, or even an airport—you’ll be able to say, “There’s a HOPE Inside.” A kiosk, a location, an app—something you can plug into. That’s my goal.
MUSA: Understanding the business is the most important. Even to us artists, especially to us artists.
JOHN: (Laughs) It’s all business—the music business, the business of music, the sports business.
MUSA: The late great director Melvin Van Peebles once told me, “its show business, it’s 10% show and 90% business. Like most of us I focused on the show part, but he’s absolutely right.
JOHN: Quincy Jones once told me, if you don’t own the music rights, the publishing rights, or the licensing rights, you’re not actually in the music business—you’re just a temporary performer. And you will be replaced by someone else who will come along and dance on the same stage.
I don’t want to dance on the same stage. I want to own the stage and rent it out. I want to own the mic and rent it out, own the lighting system and rent it out. I want to own the cameras, the lenses. I want to own the company that makes the VIP bracelets and sell them at every event. I want to own the venue and rent it out. I want to have a liquor license and sell that, too. I mean, we’re on the wrong side of the conversation.
MUSA: How do you think Dr. Fraser’s legacy will shape the future of Black literacy and advocacy? And what lesson do you think future leaders should take from his contributions?
JOHN: He’s a trailblazer. He’s ahead of his time. He’s underappreciated—not unappreciative. He would appreciate it. He’s underappreciated because he’s ahead of his time. He really is the extension of the African and African American summits that Leon Sullivan pioneered to connect African Americans to Africa. He truly was the Dr. King of that era—tying the work and legacy of African Americans with the unfinished work and history of Africa, which is where we all come from. Leon Sullivan was the first Black man to serve on the board of a Fortune 500 company. He was ahead of his time.
What Dr. Frazier is trying to do now is connect African Americans to ourselves—to heal this pain, get us off our pity party, and get us to believe in who we are so that we can reconnect back to Africa, or to our families, or to our wives. We’ve lost our grip on ourselves, and he’s trying to help us regain that fundamental, foundational grip.
So I think he’s a bridge between two eras, between two worlds. He probably won’t be fully appreciated for a while. It’s taken us 20 years to change the culture. Over the past two decades, we’ve made “dumb” sexy—we’ve celebrated it. Now we need to make smart sexy again, and I think that’s the foundation he’s putting in place. So people like me and others might end up getting credit for things that he actually did.
MUSA: What do you want your legacy to be?
JOHN: Like Dr. King said, “Just tell them I tried to help somebody. What else is there to say?”
-Musa Jackson
TALENT:
Dr. George C. Fraser
John Hope Bryant
Crew:
Photographer- Marc Baptiste
Courtney Douglas- Videographer
Groomer: Gregg Brockington
Art Director-Gregg Brockington
Assistant to Dr. Fraser: Randi Norfleet (mailto:rnorfleet@linkandleverage.co)
Producer: Musa Jackson
Renaissance Hotel Harlem Contact: Mike Garlick
Shot on location:
Thank you to The Renaissance New York Harlem Hotel @rennewyorkharlemhotel @victoriatheaternyc
NY TEAM:
Founder & Editor In Chief:
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